Traditional Jujitsu are great!

I have been training with an old guy in something called (Mago...?) Ryu Jujitsu.

He constantly surprises me with his experience of submission and body mechanics. I thought he was just dirty old man cheating the unsuspected for money.

I believe 99%, if not more, of Brazalian Jujitsu is same as traditional Jujitsu. That old man know everything I know about bjj, plus a whole lot

that is why we all think you're an idiot.

Not true. I've had 2nd and 3rd dans in JJJ tap out to smaller students of mine who are first rank (6 month to a year of training). They knew nothing about BJJ ground positional emphasis, strategy, defense, escapes, counters,

So how come Kimura beat Helio Gracie and broken his elbow in arm lock?

The person I mentioned know how to pass the guard exactly like BJJ. He know all the escape from side control, kesa gatame, triangle choke...

Most if not all BJJ techniques are in Judo. Judo is from traditional Jujitsu.

...and he probably had a couple dozen Pedro Carvalho videos on the shelf in his closet . . . . all the while claiming that his guard passing came from JJJ.

This has been covered many times before. If JJJ has all of this great guard passing, then how come NOT A SINGLE resource in print or otherwise demonstrates this?

In all of the printed documentation on JJJ

That would be fine and good, except that my statement had nothing to do with Judo. It was a statement about Japanese Jujutsu, and it still stands. There are hundreds of texts and references on JJJ in print, video, etc., and guard passing just doesn't seem to come up. This person was saying that a Japanese Jujutsu practitioner knows just as much about passing the guard as a BJJ practitioner does, and this is positively untrue.

Judo does have some rudimentary passing, but even then it is a far cry from BJJ's emphasis.

I'm very sorry but I have to disagree with what you've stated about Judo in regards to passing the guard. Basically, BJJ is good Judo without the throws. Secondly, BJJ's fame mostly comes from NHB matches. Out of the countless matches that involved those that either trained Judo and those that claimed to have trained BJJ, Judo players do a better job at passing the guard than their BJJ counter parts. One of the best matches that demonstrates this point is from the 'Ultimate Brazil' where Tsyuyoshi Kosaka fought Pete William of the Lion's Den. Not only did this fight show how well Judoka can pass the guard but ,also, demonstrated how one goes about getting an entangled arm ( a subject you did a great job of putting into a written format). If you were to make a statement that BJJ makes better use of the guard, then maybe I could back ya up on this ; )

Mallen

How is it that BJJ practitioners have such undying faith in their art? It is like some fundamentalist cult in it's self belief system. Why do so few believe that there is nothing new there, except for the approach.

It all sniffs of disrespect for other arts to me.

So BJJ is good. So is JJJ. So is Judo.

Why do so many BJJ practitioners go out of there way to put other arts down?

Sounds like there is some doubt in there....???

Live and let train.

The fact that Judo only cursorily addresses passing the guard compared to BJJ is a universally acknowledged fact.

It is surprising

My insistence that JJJ does not encompass guard passing technique that is 'just like BJJ' is not out of disrespect for JJJ, but rather out of an insistence on sticking with the facts and staying out of fantasy land.

There is a lot of revisionist history being passed around in martial art, and this is a classic example.

As far as I know, they don't. But the flipside is that other arts lay claim to BJJ's accomplishments, and this is factually incorrect

That's where people err when looking for the answer to this question.

The answer has nothing directly to do with Carlos and Helio, or anyone who taught them.

Most of the cutting edge guard passing technique we are seeing today