The de Thouars letter

To whom it may concern:

I would like to point out the possibility that the recently posted “letter from Paul de Thouars about his Brother Victor” was not actually written by Paul for a number of reasons.

First: It is established and documented history that Pak Victor is not just a Master practitioner, but a Master Instructor of Serak and was at one time the appointed successor of Paul as Pendekar. This historical fact is known by too many to be refuted by any. The majority of the Pentjak Silat world knows of Pak Victor and the other de Thouars because they are all legendary icons of the martial arts realm. This legendary status has been accorded them, with the exception of Willem (Uncle Bill), who is world- renowned for his skill and knowledge in Kuntao (and a great Silat man), because of their family art of Serak.

Second: The idea of Pak Victor having limited knowledge in Serak is ludicrous. Kees Boering of Holland had learned some of the deepest and most jealously guarded langkahs and platforms, Pantjar and Sekurum from Pak Vic by 1959. Pak Vic is still teaching these currently and has one of the most structured and scientific systems of progression I’ve ever seen in Indonesian martial arts.

Third: I don’t think that Paul would have given a retraction of statements that he made in public, even in videos, about Pak Victor’s status and rank. This would hurt Paul’s integrity and honor. If he were saying these things now, what prevents him from denying all the new people who are currently achieving ranking under him – would he retract these things also in a few years? I would like to hope not.

Fourth: One thing I always remember Paul saying that I respected a great deal, was, “let me remain with my honor intact.” I do not think that Paul would be willing to say too much in public about his private problems with his own family. At this point, the family reputation in the martial arts is almost being shadowed by the family controversy and strife. Surely, Paul does not seek more attention from negative controversy than by positive praise for his body of knowledge.

I would like to finish by stating that Pak Victor neither seeks nor cares about any affiliation with Paul or his various organizations and that Pak Victor is being true to himself and the art that he loves in his own unique way.

Ken Pannell VDT Academy Ohio Serak Tjabang

This is for all the silat guys.

Who is 'Pendakar Sanders?' He's teaching Indonesian Pencak Silat. Just curious.

GOU RONIN® - The Unforgiven... ICQ# - 49024165

Ashida Kim in a sarong.

Chas http://members.xoom.com/kilap/Keepsafe.htm http://members.xoom.com/kilap/cane.html http://members.xoom.com/kilap/monkey.html http://www.kuntaosilat.com/

Ouch. Hehehe...

Ronin, are you trolling again, or was this a serious question?

William Sanders teaches something he calls Cimande Pusaka. He says that he was given the right and the knowledge to teach the real deal Cimande by some Indonesian pendekars, and was declared a pendekar at a very tender young age. He also claims to be the American representative of the Indonesian silat accrediting board. He is also very heavily into the mystical stuff; he kicked out some of his teachers for not teaching his version of magick (a weird mixture of Jewish Kabalistic magic and Indonesian animism, if I understand correctly). So, he is a tad controversial. His local representative is Jeff Davidson, and he has a bit of a reputation around here in his own right. He says some things on his web site that are thinly veiled slams at my teacher, so I'm a tad biased, though. Go to the Submission Underground website, find the judo/sambo forum, and ask Mark Tripp (judo coach; trained Dan Severn for those early UFC's) about his experiences with Jeff Davidson.

Here is Sander's page:
http://kcweb.nhmccd.cc.tx.us/employee/cmartin/ silat.html

And here is Davidson's:
http://www.pencaksilat.org/toc.html

Even in it's most broadly defined and generous interpretation, the word Pendekar is serious stuff. It has religious and spiritual meaning, it has implications of being a champion fighter, it certainly means a deep and thorough internal knowledge of the art. 'Cimande' (tjimande' is a very popular West Javanese system. There are at least four major sub-systems and countless teachers within each of those sub-groups. Cimande Pusaka means the 'true and original holy legacy of cimande'- an interesting claim to the ears of other lineages. Pendekar is a name *other people* call someone; not something they call themselves.

And there's no such thing. Of course, what I mean is that there is obviously some sort of little group of cronies that have registered a name with the local sheriff, but the idea of some sort of regulating board for silat is hilarious.

Raja Naga is a sort of legless crocodile dragonsnake- armored with a helmet and plates. Sort of all mouth with a hat.

''Veiled''??? <g> It's a pity that they didn't find it sufficient to make very bold claims, they felt it necessary to run down other, more capable, teachers. Everything one needs to know about them is inherent in any picture taken of them.

Chas http://members.xoom.com/kilap/Keepsafe.htm http://members.xoom.com/kilap/cane.html http://members.xoom.com/kilap/monkey.html http://www.kuntaosilat.com/

Nope. Saw an ad and thought I'd ask. Now you see why I get into so much trouble.

GOU RONIN® - The Unforgiven... ICQ# - 49024165

My Indonesian friend tells me that there is just such a board & it is abbreviated as Ipsi. What that means/stands for I have no idea but it is evidently a regualting board. Whether this other fellow has any connection at all I have no idea.

The despot, Sukarno, put all sorts of infringements upon martial arts- IPSI not the least of them. Their pastime, a contest called ola raga, is considered to be kind of funny by serious pesilat. Indicative of their intent is the fact that they often wear TKD gi for exhibition. The Indonesian government would do business with anyone offering access to hard currency. Sanders' little governing board promised to 'promote pentjak silat in the United States'- so they gave him a little 'authorization'- neither are worth a damn. About the best description of Sanders was given to me by a Dutch Indonesian practitioner of sixty years; 'Willem Sanders got his credentials off of a vege-table cart, in the street'- an understood hyperbole, but indicative of the admiration in which his 'authorization' is held. Nah- piss on them.

Chas http://members.xoom.com/kilap/Keepsafe.htm http://members.xoom.com/kilap/cane.html http://members.xoom.com/kilap/monkey.html http://www.kuntaosilat.com/

to sir with love(lit.comp. joke)

elaborate! ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

being what they call an amatuer student of the mysteries, i have gotta know ... i read the web-thangs- whats the judeo-fantabulous import? have you seen the deal?

Carl

But Chas! It says right here in the ad that Pendakar Sanders will teach me how to steal my opponent's awareness! ....HEY! He's already doing it! Wow, that IS good advertising! At 49.95$ a video in the set of 12 he'll be stealing it for a while! Quick Russ! Stop before I buy! AUGH! Wait! I know!

**giving my credit card to my dog**

Run boy! RUUUUUUN!!!!!

What the...?

NOOOOOOOO!!! Get away from that TKD dojang! Bad puppy! Baaaaaaaddddd!

GOU RONIN® - The Unforgiven... ICQ# - 49024165

Silat is rife with stories of controlling the opponent in various ways. The training starts out with simple things; body things that divert attention or mis-lead it, breathing things, timing diversions and so on. So, the training has some useful aspects to it before you get to the voodoo part <g> Same thing with the 'pointing' art- at it's early stages, the pointing art is about body mechanics and studying anatomy; as it progresses, it can become more about poisoning and practicing black magic. There are some guys that mitigate that practice by inserting the religion of their choice, but it still gets pretty dark- it isn't something to mess about with; it can make you very meddlesome. I read Sanders' book and I've seen some of his tapes; know some guys that crossed hands with him. The magic is not similar to the more traditional sort; his movements and applications look similar to people I've seen who have learned from videos- he did not fare well in light contests with pesilat of significantly lesser ability than to be called 'pendekar'.

Chas http://members.xoom.com/kilap/Keepsafe.htm http://members.xoom.com/kilap/cane.html http://members.xoom.com/kilap/monkey.html http://www.kuntaosilat.com/

Where is this letter, can I see it?