Mr. Chas/ Victor de Thouars

You appear to be the resident expert on Indonesian styles. As one interested in Indonesian arts, I would like to pose a question to you. Assuming Victor de Thouars was in his prime and without a knife, what stategy/techniques do you think he would employ if Rixon Grace were attempting a two-legged takedown on him - or for that matter - any type of wresting/BJJ style of takedown? Could he avoid the clinch - would he try? Would he survive, in your opinion, without a blade?

You are an anonymous person with no name, but what would you do if you were forced to reveal your name? Would you be able to handle the hurricane like force of having to use a first and last name, in an email newsgroup posting??? Or would you fall apart without the cutting edge of vapid anonymity?

Realize that they are some pounds or more different in weight. Nonetheless, having hade a seminar or two with Pak Victor and uncle Bill I'd have to say that although Rickson has the edge in overall athletic ability, he actually doesn't have the edge in techniques for take downs or submissions. Both were recently at the last San Jose Gasshuku and I learned alot. Their kuntao and family silat styles are alot more vicious and effective in the grappling range than BJJ

I can't say for sure who'd win between Pak Victor in his prime without a knife and Rickson. It would be close to be sure. However, between Willem and Rickson, hmm. even now I have doubts about Rickson's ability to keep up with the explosive power that the 'Monkey King' can generate. Remember, Uncle Bill is an internal stylist and has a powerful repertoire of bagua, silat and kuntao. He's like a tornado. In a no holds barred tourney like they used to have in Brazil back when Helio Gracie was in his prime. I'd have to say the Uncle Bill would decimate him.

Guys, I hate to interfere, but my experience is that 'would-have' and 'could-have' techniques don't work in tournaments. Since the gentlemen in question never fought against each other, the discussion is pointless.

Tomas Drgon

Step out of it then.

Well, if you're in the New England area Pak Vic will be coming to Massachusetts at the end of March for a seminar - in case anyone was interested. I think it's on his site: www.serak.com

Regards,

Who was the guy who came in to shoot?

Ya know, I'm sure there are probably a thousand BJJ students or MMA guys out there that are willing to fight any one of these guys or their students at any time under probably any empty-handed rule, including allowing the dreaded eyeball strikes and skin ripping and all of this bullshit.

There's a zillion of them who would take the fight. If the Silat people won, they would instantly monopolize probably the entire martial arts market, videotape market, merchandising, etc.

Probably 95% of the MMA crowd would leave BJJ schools or wrestling and that sort of shit and flock en masse to Silat schools to learn how to get better.

Yet, it hasn't happened...why? Silat has EVERYTHING to gain by this encounter and nothing to lose, so why aren't they making it happen?

I've also seen seminars where people 'angled out against the shot.'

But, you know what? In my years of wrestling and watching literally thousands of matches, and I mean THOUSANDS, I've never seen a wrestler do it.

They all sprawl and do different things. Could it be that in the 5000 years that wrestling's been around, nobody ever figured out this 'angling' that all the asian arts are showing in seminars? I doubt it. Wrestlers train to get in against people who don't want them to. It's their entire game and they rarely fail against people of all sorts of disciplines, yet I'm supposed to believe that Silat has a magical answer where literally EVERY other art has failed?

BULL SHIT.

And of course, your opinion means nothing.

Thanks chas et al for your comments, they were all very interesting. The argument is similar to the standard debate over the old 'masters' versus the new warriors. Were the old masters actually able to do what legend says they did. Did that Shoalin Priest just walk up that wall, across the ceiling and down the other side - or did I just have too much Sake. To a Mr. Goldberg, I can only say what?? You wrote: hurricane >like force of having to use a first and last name, in an email newsgroup >posting??? Or would you fall apart without the cutting edge of vapid >anonymity?

There are many reasons why someone might post anonamously, not all of them because one is evil or a coward. What business is it of yours how someone else runs their on-line life. Are you keeping records? Making lists? Perhaps it's the activities of persons like yourself that cause some to choose to go on-line anonamously. Or perhaps you're just the resident gossip columnist looking for a juicy tidbit. Be careful dude, pretty soon they'll be calling you Mark-Hedda Hopper-Goldberg.

You're 'what if' question is standard fare for various trolls who, by nature fail to use their real name. Perhaps he mistook you for one? Should he?

Peace favor your sword (FSG)

Gentleman
In Bellflower
1791 Artesia Blvd
Next to Shippmans Carpet

Tuesday Evening
7pm

or Monday, Guru Dan Inosanto still trains here.
We will be done after 2:30
Everyone is welcome

Never guess
Walk a mile in ones shoes
Come down in Person, all welcome.
No magicial Silat, just train, and keep the Magic behind Keyboards.
Come on down to any of our classes

Kempo, Silat, Aikido, MMA, Hw-rangdo

Saturday - Kick Boxing and Grappling
Life is way to short

Best regards

Pak Vic de Thouars

Soon we will have range training with
Dr. C. Blome - must have your own equipment.
1911 still a favorite among IPSIC

For anyone curious, I highly recommend checking out on of Pak Vic's classes. He is an excellent teacher and very welcoming.

I've always enjoyed the hypothetical who would win versus who, but I think BJJ vs Serak is comparing apples and oranges. BJJ is a sport, and also an effective martial art, whose techniques aren’t designed for killing. The techniques taught in Serak are deadly...often attacking the spine. Serak techniques would quickly get one disqualified from a sporting contest (and likely arrested). Another way of posing the question is would Rixon Gracie survive if he were to attack Pak Vic? I'm not going to speculate, because I don't think it would come to that. I will offer one cautionary note...beware under-estimating any martial art! The amount and intensity of practice are way more important than the style.

Gentle Man
It is nice for you fine folks to write about me, Thank you.
When I came here to the USA in 1960, my goal was to have Americans to be one of the Best in Silat.
Now, Mr. Hicksen I belief came to my school some time ago. Really great person. So happen I was teaching the Pedang(Sword) he mentioned, really serious about the work. I said yes we are. At rate, in training Guru Dan Inosanto really fine time, as I teach him Serak, he helps me understand the Phillipino Arts.

Give you folks a small example
If I train a person just hand to hand for yes 2 years, and a other person the blade for a week.
The person with the blade will have the edge. ----- No Contest---- just food for thougt.
So the answer is to teach both, hand and blade. And No....No training blades. It is there were folks can get a false notion. Do use care doing so, the blade can bite faster than you can think

When I was younger I was on the Judo Floor a lot. And that is more fun than a person can experience.
Just two things, I never assume.

I am 68 years young, my preferrences for the young folks to be the Champs and teach the great system of Serak that I opened up for all. Use to be Closed. When one grows older.
Accept, adapt and act.

At my age I prefer Knife Grappling and 1911 Grappling. So much faster, unless my fingers gets tired.
Reason why the Knight from old became a lost trade with the introduction of the gun.

Jane my wife who was in the Army is a pretty good shot, she teaches Aikido at our School. And we have other students that teach Kempo and yes, I believe one student is teaching BJJ.
Really fun stuff.

Plus I like the happy faces you can add.
Guru Dan ask me to open my fencing class again, except time is short.

What is more exiting in process to sell my Alternative Energy Project. that will serve all of us.
Always remember the young rule the world.

Take care Folks
Train in what ever your mind will allow you to go, nomatter what style.
It is all good.

My Best

Pak Vic