Fullers

What's so hard about fullers that most bladesmiths won't attempt them? Fullers are one of the most basic evolutions of the bladesmithing technic. They are eminently functional, useful, pragmatic, aesthetic....... why are we stuck with low end *forging* skills as the apex of knifemakers art? For that matter; why don't stock removal guys do fullers- grooves. The Japanese scrape them out- it's stock removal. There are certainly all the shaped stones a guy could want. I got over being astounded when they could grind a straight line years ago. It's time for a new trick, guys.

But what's the point of a fuller in a knife? It's just a groove that will accumulate crud. It is not as though a knife needs the benefit of reduced mass without significantly reducing strength. The key in modern working blades is functionality. That's why specific designs have developed for specific tasks (skinner, caper, fighter, chopper).

A fuller is useful on a large blade, particularly a sword. I and most of the swordsmiths I kow do use them for swords. A fuller on a knife is unecessary foof that serves no purpose and makes it harder to maintain.

Sure. Stiffness is less important with a short blade, weight is less important with a small blade.

I didn't get that one either.

Well, they're small and light. Making them fractionally lighter doesn't really improve their performance, even during mayhem, let alone chopping veggies.

Well, rather more evidence for the former point than the latter, let us say. Really, though, a fraction of an ounce difference in weight in a fighting knife makes no difference. I'm still not getting the maintenance thing.

Good reason: significantly reduced cost, insignificantly reduced performance, better value.

Probably the same?

Nah; look (and feel) those beautiful old Marble's- they had a wonderful 'hand' to them and worked *hard* for you.

It shifts the whole balance of a comparable blade that doesn't have one.

A fullered blade isn't any stiffer than a non-fullered one given the same grind profile. A fullered blade will be stifgfer than a non-fullered one of the same weight.

I just got through fileting 8 salmon. No grooves to collect gunk. Obviusly, if one maintains one blade this is not an issue

The difference in mass of a typical 3' blade is going to be insignificant. Besides, more than half the blades I own are hollow ground. How is a fuller going to help these?

And what percentage of knives actually feature fullers. Make siure to include all that kitchen cutlery. Your answer above was half right:

'Fullers were dropped from production knives because of the savings in production costs'

You forgot to add 'And because they served no significant useful purpose to justify the cost'.

Fullerse, like other blade features, serve a specific purpose, not a universal one. Saying that every blade should have a fuller is like arguing that every knife should be double edged, drop pointed, etc. I'll stay with my contention - until a blade is fairly large in size, the weight savings provided by a fuller is insignificant and probably imperceptable by the user.

I'm not saying a fuller makes a knife *worse*, goodness.

The shorter the blade, the less the balance changes from a fuller. And of course, blade thickness changes the balance too - a 1/4' fullered knife might be blade-heavier than a 3/16' unfullered knife.

brianWE If you want to win an argument, it is best to stick to the truth. Or provable untruths.

What?

Uh; ok.

Indeed.

Other than that's not the only criteria; 'insignificant' is only in context. The extreme is that a fuller on a 1' blade wouldn't change it much either- but then there wasn't much to it to begin with.

By ridging the back and reducing the frangible part of a hollow ground blade. Of course, a hollow grind seeks to do much the same thing as a fuller does to begin with.

Uh; ok. Although, they always serve the purpose they always serve- in terms of 'universality'.

When did I say 'every blade should have a fuller'? Are you leaping to an illogical extreme to try to disprove a point I didn't even make? cool.

And, that is only one criterion for the use of fullers- And not even the most cogent one.

It certainly sounded like that in your original post.

That is the only mechanical reason for a fuller in a blade. As far as esthetics, that's a personal thing.

I guess I've just handled so many sharpened pry bars that I'm pissed that they don't make a jump in sophistication. I see guys that can produce the most complex mosaic pattern-weld, and then they'll design and construct a blade that doesn't rise to the level of technic of a thousand years ago. I see guys with the most advanced equipment and processes- and they're doing stuff that could be turned out by a Negrito smith over a charcoal fire, beating it out on a lump of iron. I know that fullering requires mastering a difficult skill- for the hand bladesmith- but that's why they get the big money. Hell; if I just wanted to cut stuff, I'd buy a pack of Schick razor blades; everything after that is an affectation anyway.