False edge question

My bowie with 10' blade came with a 'false edge' approximately 3-15/16' long with a convex cross section. Although convex, the false edge is sharp enough to cut paper.

I am familiar with the laws governing knives in the northeast. For example, in New York a switchblade is illegal, period. A dirk, dagger or stiletto is legal as long as you have no intent to harm. Specifically, a person commits a crime if:

'He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another'

However, intent will be presumed if the knife is primarly intended for use as a weapon. Specifically:

'The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk, stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another.'

This is a bit stupid because daggers, dirks and stilettos are intended to be weapons, unless there is some arcane specialty workshop application, which appears to be the case for some stilettos, at least.

It would appear that

From my copy of 'New York's Firearms and Weapons Laws,' second edition by Lt. Lee O. Thomas (NYS Police, ret.) and Jeffrey Chamberlain, Attorney at Law:

265.01 Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree Class A Misdemeanor (

That contradiction is also mentioned in the commentary. The important term in the law is 'presumptive evidence.'

From Thomas and Chamberlain:

'In all criminal prosecutions, it is the prosecution's responsibility to prove all of the elements of the crime charged. Based on common experience, the law has recognized that some circumstances are so suggestive that in effect, they prove themselves.. In circumstances such as those listed in these sections, the legal presumption is strong enough to support a conviction without any additional evidence. Neither a court or a jury is required to agree with the presumption; the rule is only that they may if they wish.' '...a defendant with an innocent explaination for his behavior is almost always advised to present affirmitive evidence to avoid being convicted.'

As in any case where the law seems to contradict itself, the best attorney you can afford is the way to go...

Take it easy,

This part of the comentary is plainly wrong. There is no such exception in any part of this article of the NY Penal Law.

'Under the Penal Law, all knives are not treated equally. Possession of a switchblade, gravity knife or cane sword is a crime in itself. They have been made per se weapons by the State Legislature predicated upon a finding that such instruments have no legitimate purpose except as weapons, and would rarely be found in the hands of a law-abiding citizen.' Adams v. New York, 192 U.S. 585, 599, 24 S.Ct. 372, 375, 48 L.Ed. 575 aff'g. 176 N.Y. 351, 68 N.E. 636

It is true that a presumpton can be overcome by extrinsic evidence. If you are actually hunting or fishing

Are you sure about your first part, Ken?

In AZ it's illegal to carry guns on state property -unless you have a hunting license-. In other words, pay for permissiom to carry on state land. There are lots of laws against everything but there seems to always be some loop hole that if you pay for a permit of some sort you can skirt the restriction. It's just the normal bureaucrat/Gambino way of thinking.

But NY/NE may have gotten so afraid that they won't even take money for the 'privilege' of knife carry? I sure as heck don't know.

I've got a German made bowie knife on the dash of my pickup. (it's got a bone handle, i know it's bone, because it's broken

Alvin in AZ

NY/NE?? What does Nebraska have to do with any of this?? Or, were you using the slang abreviation for New England, coupled with the Accepted legal/USPS abreviation for New York?? It's not just fly-over country, you know! And, anyone who thinks Nebraska doesn't have trees, should read up on the origination of Arbor Day! <BG> . . . . .

. . . . . . .(Hey, if those on the left coast of California can get upset over Internet abreviation of Canada using CA, please allow me the pleasure of voicing my concerns over the misuse/confusion caused by the use of NE coupled with NY

Oooops. :/

Man, you know the contry's going to hell when they're afraid of knives in Nebraska. It's worse than I thought.

'CornHuskers' I heard of, but I'm not an athletic supporter.

Alvin in AZ (100% atheist)

Could be... I'm certainly no legal expert by any stretch. I do tend to trust the authors that wrote the commentary (see brief bio's below). I just wanted to put out some information I read in the one and only book I have on NY weapons laws. I don't think very many folks who have an interest in knives and guns ever bother to educate themselves on the law. This book is my attempt.

The book I referred to (' 'Gun Control in New York' New York's Firearms and Weapons Laws' is an interesting read. The laws are a little dry for layman's reading, but the commentary by the authors helps keep things interesting. The ring-bound book from Looseleaf Law Publications is available through the NY State Rifle and Pistol Association with an optional subscription service to receive annual supplements reflecting new laws and changes to existing laws. Interspersed in the book are copies of famous people's NYS pistol permit applications. Interesting....

Author Lee O. Thomas retired as a Lieutenant in the NYS Police (Commander of the Central Records Bureau) after 31 years of service. Author Jeffrey Chamberlain is a practicing attorney in Albany NY and formerly Chief Counsel to the NYS Police, where he worked with Lt. Thomas in drafting, interpreting and implementing New York's firearms and weapons laws. Both men won prestigious awards in their respective fields.

I've often discussed weapons laws with a very good friend who is a former First Deputy Commissioner of the NY State Police. He always stressed that without 'criminal intent,' there isn't a case. But how do we know what the judge will consider to be 'criminal intent'?

I'm bowing out of this thread, as I'm already in over my head! As with all legal stuff, it's subject to interpretation and the only interpretation that counts is that which happens in the particular courtroom where you may be sitting in the defendant's seat....

Take it easy,