Dux Ryu Ninjitsu

Tim,

I am not a student of Dux Ryu, but am a student of the Bujinkan. Can I ask you why you are interested in hooking up with a teacher of Dux Ryu?

Tim Greer - Linkworm Software wrote:

Oh my God, this is amazing. And how do you know he holds those records? Has any independent source confirmed them? You got them off his website, as I did, or from someone affiliated with him. He won the Kumite for five years in a row.

Has ANYONE, any other reputable martial artist that you know of, EVER heard of the Kumite? About that book of his, have you read the book that uncovered people who lied about being in Vietnam and in which the author obtained Dux's military records and found that, contrary to what Dux says, he wasn't even IN the military during the time he claimed to be in an elite unit in Vietnam?

Has ANYONE ever confirmed that Dux worked for the CIA? Has ANYONE ever confirmed that they studied ninjitsu along with Dux?

Has ANYONE credible ever confirmed his world records?

Please, Tim, use your brain for more than a hat rack. Ask for some supporting evidence instead of believing everything you read.

Soldier of Fortune magazine did an investigation years back about Dux claims and his book on his involvement in the CIA. They determined that he was nothing more than a fraud all the way around.

Unfortunately, I do not read SoF so I cannot tell you which issue they revealed their investigation in. I'm sure if someone were to contact them and ask they would gladly provide you with issues and page numbers on the Dux fraud topic.

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I have most of the Guinness Book Of Records going back to 1982, and I can't find his name. I know there is a different edition for the US- could you tell me the year of his inclusion, and the edition? There was a fairly heated debate in the UK martial arts press about Frank Dux at the time of the Bloodsport release and some of his claims, and the conclusion seemed to be that most of them were either fraudulent or unverifiable. The hardest one to verify seemed to be the very existence of 'The Kumite' itself- while there are certainly 'underground' tournaments held there seemed to be no one large event that could match the descriptions that Dux gave. Also as mentioned in another post it seems very strange that a Chinese martial arts tournament would be named The Kumite with the history of antagonism between the two races. I'm not sure what records you refer to, but the laughable 'records' at the end of Bloodsport would certainly never make it to a publication like the Guinness Book Of Records- all records of physical prowess need to pass very strict scrutiny and hearsay is not one of them. My favourite is the claim for knockouts in a single tournament- I believe it was 30 or something like that. If the tournaments happened as Dux described them (ie a knockout format) then there would have needed to be over half a billion fighters in the competition!!! The only other alternative is a competition where everyone fights everyone else- and with that number of fighters you'd need at least a week to get through the 435 fights that it would take! Hardly likely to keep a tournament like that much of a secret! That Dux studied some form of 'ninjutsu' (another bugbear of mine, genuine ninjutsu is EXTREMELY rare) is undoubted; but to what level and under whom is a rather grey area. IMHO Dux is a capable martial artist and a more than capable self publicist, but all claims need to be seen in the light of the latter.

Paul Moyce

I agree, but I also doubt he learned ninjitsu. As you say, true ninjitsu (and even Hatsumi has received some criticism on this score) is EXTREMELY rare, and my understanding is that Dux learned some form of karate, NOT ninjitsu. I would bet he got videos and read books and prepared his own style. Ninjitsu was perfect, because he could claim he learned it secretly. But even that is kinda silly...he has been so blatant with his lies that I doubt he was even concerned he'd be found out. Dux seems to have learned an important lesson...even in this day and age, there are so many people that can be fooled that one needn't worry about the odd person who disputes your claims. There are enough who will believe and pay.

I would bet his karate and his presentation are decent enough that his students (who probably can't tell authentic from non-authentic) are fooled. Even more difficult if he patterns his fake style's movements after real stuff.

And I always laughed at the idea of the Chinese calling one of their tournaments, underground or no, the Kumite! The very idea suggests that Dux doesn't have much (or didn't when he came up with the scam) understanding of Japanese or Chinese culture.

Another big laugh I've had is people on r-ma writing in to say how impressed they were with Dux based on the fight scenes in Bloodsport. First, they are fight scenes designed to entertain, not to reflect martial arts, and second, they are TERRIBLE!! I've read people who said they were impressed with the strategies used by 'Dux' in the movie, and I watched it once, wondering, what strategy?

Now, Bruce Lee's climactic fight with Chuck Norris in Return of the Dragon, THAT was strategy. Pretty kicks, getting beat almost to death, then miraculously coming back, as we see in Bloodsport, that is just dumb.