Doorman (Bouncer) Question

Reading a lot of the postings here I notice that many of the martial artists either have in the past or are presently involved in door or security work. I'd like to know, as a matter of interest:

What styles people studied, and what had to be adapted/ discarded after facing the 'real world',

Anything that has proved particularly effective (apart from confidence and bullshit, my favourite technique),

Strategies for dealing with weapons and multiple attackers,

The standard of opposition (ever been caught out?)

This one for the guys in the US, does the possibility of gunplay alter your strategy, or is it a lot rarer than we see on TV?

Looking forward to your replies,

Paul Moyce

Studied some form of classical Kung Fu and changed to JKD, Boxing and Filipino Martial Arts.

I could get 80% of problems solved with the simple old slap-the face, for the rest I depended on the headbutt.

Close the door if possible If not, take a weapon yourself: best bet against multiple: fire extinguisher!

Sorry, didn´t get that one.

I am not from the US, but I´ve been shot at one time, just took a dive for my live We deal more with knife in any kind and form.

Good luck

Frank J.A.B. JKD Akademie Berlin http://jkd.cjb.net

'Don´t mistake kindness for weakness' - Sifu Larry Hartsell

Boxing, USMC hand to hand, TKD (sorry, don't like that one), Isshinryru and good old brawling.

Yes. Go for the unusual and do it first.

Give the man a kewpie doll! I'm impressed. I didn't think there were that many of us out there. The initial spray will take out 3-8 and then using it as a blunt assault weapon adds range to steel. If nothing else, time to run.

Once. Never again.

Never take a knife to a gun fight. The possiblility is there, but too many people think it will be the end all. First, 25% or better of people who believe they can rely on a handgun won't use it if they pull it out...Big Mistake. Another 25% aren't very good with a gun. Newest studies of knife to gun, with trained shooters, suggests anything within 30 feet with a knife can get to you before you draw and shoot. My style; cowardice: run away in zig zag pattern leaving only a small yellow trail

I like that saying. Too many people do; or to few whichever end you may be on.

A bouncer's first resort and best weapon is a way to marshall the other bouncers so a one-on-one or multiple-attacker situation becomes a gang fight. Most morons will back down from that. If things are serious, somebody with a phone and the words 'the cops are on their way with a wagon' works wonders.

### dabbled in lots, but mainly kickboxing, thai boxing, aikido, jkd/kali. Now I just do stuff purely geared for the street or doorwork.

and what had to be adapted/ discarded after

## most of it. For real situations you want a very small number of front-line techniques (smaller the better), coupled with broad strategies you can use in a wide variety of situations. So you're disgarding probably 95% of your skills (although of course it's always there for backup - it's just not primary) As far as adaption goes, the main areas are stress, verbals, stance/hand position & environment.

Youn need to choose techiques & strategies which work under stress. No fine or complex motor skills, no small targets, no multi-part techniques.

You need to learn how to throw KO techniques from a verbal dialogue - this is hard to get used to - either while you're talking or while he is. Learn to throw everything from conversation range, no stance, no guard (although your hands may be raised in some 'non-threatening' position)

You need to adjust footwork depending on environment - I've had fights in tightly packed crowds, dancefloors littered with bottles, on flights of stairs, on slippery toilet floors & even one in a broom cupboard (it didn't start there - we fell through the door !) Never move in a direction you can't see (ie backward)

Learn to scan (look around) after every few strikes - this is very hard, esp under intense stress, but it's useful for breaking tunnel vision & spotting important factors (other attackers, incidental weapons, witnesses etc)

Whatever techniques you use, learn to throw them very,very hard, with absolute aggression & complete commitment.

## chokes, slaps, palm heels, elbows, clinch & knee, pushes.

## close in fast, grab & control weapon hand, strike/takedown

and multiple attackers,

## good covering skills, positioning, power & aggression.

## never judge a book by it's cover. Some big guys turn into little lambs, some little guys are ferocious. Some of the toughest guys I know are pretty meek looking. Drink & drugs change things a lot too. Some people are almost impossible to hurt. I've been caught out once - hit a guy with a real nice elbow on the side of the jaw - took it right off the hinges I think - he just hit me back without pause. I should've followed up. Always follow up.

There's always a lot of talk about skilled/unskilled attackers whenever martial artists discuss real fighting, but skill is rarely a factor. Even if a guy is skilled, unless he's an experienced streetfighter his skills will go completelyout the window under pressure anyway. The important factors are mindset & experience. How ferocious is the guy ? How far is he prepared to go ? How many times has he done this before ?

## If you don't mind me asking Frank, what kind of strategies/techniques have you used to deal with knife attacks. I know you have a heavy background in filipino styles - what proved useful in the real situations ? Cheers,

It has definitly helped me. Altough maybe different kind of weapon training would have done the same. First of all, it developed my respect for the knife. In Germany it is even legal for a 12 year old to buy and carry some kind of knife, so you got a good chance to run in one. FMA training helped me to figure out the following: You will get cut, accept it. If someone draws a knife, get an equalizer like a stick (gives you distance and time) or any other weapon. If there is no time, don´t get of your jacket and try to wrap it around your arm: no time for that! Usually what worked best for me was timing: knife training makes you faster (we do sparring with waterproof markers: knife vs. knife and empty hand vs. knife), think 'hit' first, try to get the eyes or nose or anything that disturbes the opponents vision, don´t hunt the knife or weapon arm. Until now (after 12 years of door work) I suffered just 2 - 3 minor cuts. But I also lost two collegues, one stabed with a dagger in the lung, the other cut through his artery in his upper thigh with a balisong. Both survived, but will not return to work for sure.

Good luck

Frank J.A.B. JKD Akademie Berlin http://jkd.cjb.net

'Don´t mistake kindness for weakness' - Sifu Larry Hartsell

And I thought I discovered it Really universal, that kind of weapon

Frank J.A.B. JKD Akademie Berlin http://jkd.cjb.net

'Don´t mistake kindness for weakness' - Sifu Larry Hartsell

To be honest, bouncers (and anybody else) here in the US don't have as much gun-play to deal with as you see on TV. In fact, the 'gun culture' exists more in political rhetoric than in reality.

Not to say that there aren't some 'gun nuts' and some 'really bad people' (criminals). It's just that firearms are grossly misrepresented in the media.

Interestingly enough, the places that seem to have the most trouble with violence, and in particular, firearms violence, are those populace cities/locations that have very stringent restrictions on firearms.

This was covered no too long ago in a thread here. A quick Dejanews search should be able to dredge it up.

peace favor your sword, Kirk Lawson

Anytime somebody says 'interestingly enough' they're making a point.

Chicken and egg, guy, chicken and egg. Those places tend to be very densely populated, like cities. Gun control laws got passed because of gun violence. The stronger the laws, the more people expected to see gun violence wiped out, so the more noticeable the existing gun violence is.

Are things worse now in New York or North Jersey than they were before the laws were passed? Nope. Better? Hard to tell, since reporting of these kinds of crimes has gone up as people start to believe something will be done by the cops.

Draw your own conclusions. I read the statistics, you can too.

Nope. Any time a LEO is called to the scene of a crime or disturbance, they are required to fill out mounds of paperwork. All this paperwork goes into the FBI statistics database and is then available to anyone interested. There is no 'general public perceptions' in these statistics.

These statistics clearly point to an increase in violent crime corresponding to the enactment of more restrictive laws. (i.e.: Washington DC, Chicago, etc.) So, yes, according to the FBI, things -are- worse in these cities.

Conversely, in populous areas where less restrictive laws are passed or laws that reduce restrictions on firearms ownership, carry, and use, the violent crime rate decreases. (ie. Miami, Tampa, Dallas, etc.)

It's very simple, pass restrictive laws, crime goes up, pass unrestrictive laws, crime goes down. Now, if your goal is to decrease crime, what should you do? You don't need me to tell you.

There's no chicken. No egg. There is only a choice: Disarmed victims and bold predators, or an armed populace and criminals who think twice.

Peace favor your sword, Kirk Lawson