a little guidance please

Fasincating. Apparently a lot of what Judo and Jujitsu teach also have this statement (AFAIK). Why do so many traditional arts hold this view? Any comments from anyone?

I mean.. it seems like arts which use force make good fighters quickly. But a lot of traditional arts keep saying this stuff about don't use muscles, use circles, relax, etc..

I think that THEORETICALLY (for most of us) it is perfectly feasible to use minimum force in a fighting situation. The forces described in the internal arts are not magic, but very hard to perfect. It's like the difference between a classical guitarist and a rocker (no offence, just a general example.) You learn ever so slowly, so that when you reel off your solo, it's perfect. Playing scales/classical requires precision and practice. Same with the advanced martial arts. The catch is that it's very hard to believe, but in the end, it's almost raw physics. If x amount of mass at y velocity etc. In practical terms, this might not be so useful to someone who hasn't attained the necessary control to achieve the accuracy necessary to these arts. Essentially, the internal arts teach your mind to control the body, which is difficult, and the external teach the body to remember the technique, which is hard work. Both are valid. One thing I will say, is that a lot of the posts that argue against the validity of internal arts seem to come from punters who have no belts or mix and match their arts to suit them. This might explain why they have no belief in the power of internal arts, because they have no patience/staying power.

Or maybe because those internal arts black belts gets their **** kicked by the same punters with no patience?

Well, the musical analogy here doesn't work too well, unfortunately. It's not a matter of a classical musician (aka 'internalist' playing with more precision and than the rocker (aka 'externalist' does. External stylists practice their 'scales' just as much as internalists do; in fact, anyone involved in a fairly traditional style will tell you the basics are hammered in over and over again. Speed is irrelevant here; there's a learning curve that must be followed to learn any technique, and techniques are practiced slowly as well as quickly in many styles, all to get that 'precision'.

??? Every movement somebody makes involves physics, whether they're internal, external, or extraterrestial . I think you're trying to say that supposedly internal arts require more 'control' or 'precision', which kind of misses the point. You're not trying to make your movement more 'precise' (whatever that means) in internal arts; you're instead trying to learn how to relax completely and thereby assign more power (which has to be trained) to the legs and waist area and minimally to the shoulders and arms. Hence a qualitatively different way of generating power. You can hit hard either internally *or* externally, but they're not the same. Hence, to use your musical analogy, it's not just a matter of playing 'scales' better than the next guy.

Wrong again. *Every* art, whether external or internal, uses the mind to control the body in some fashion. So as a general statement, it's too generic to be of help. In internal arts, the mind does what I feel are a few unique things to make the adjustments toward applied force, but this is something different than the maxims you're postulating.

Well, externalists don't typically run down so-called 'internal arts' because they themselves have no staying power, but rather because they see a lot of nonsense going on with most people styling themselves as 'internalists'. And rightly so. You have to have a high-level person show you some things to begin to get it right, and as Mike Sigman often tells you here, there are that many non-asians who can teach you the right foundations. Heck, not that many asians can either . Go for the top guys. It's always the best advice somebody can give. If you do, you won't talk like this in your next post .

Regards, Jim S.